Gareth Morgan has given the Green Party the most extraordinary of bollockings; TVNZ reports:
Entrepreneur and philanthropist Gareth Morgan has taken a swipe at the Green Party and some conservationists.He says that the majority of New Zealanders see them as "lefties", "extremists" or "nutters," which in the long run is holding back their cause of protecting the environment."We still have a Green Party that refuses to go into coalition with National. What the hell is that about? Is this a party concerned with conservation? Or is it a far-left group using conservation as a Trojan horse for another agenda?"
Morgan asks a very good question here. We've long suspected that the Greens are little more than a whole lot of agendas thinly disguised as a political party. They leap on every bandwagon going.
Gareth Hughes is a prime example. He's the Greens' social media king. He's always tweeting about going to a meeting on fracking here, and going to a meeting on asset sales there, and we can only wonder at the size of his carbon footprint. It seems that he has been seduced by the riches of free travel (actually, it's travel paid for by you and we) and other benefits available to him.
And sometimes he goofs. He was bragging on Facebook and Twitter the other day about attending a protest at Parliament; you know the one; the People Power Ohariu one, where perhaps 40 people turned up. He was oddly silent when we enquired politely why he hadn't posted a photograph, as he often does.
Morgan was not finished however:
At Forest and Bird's conference, Face up to the Future, Morgan also took aim at some conservationist groups he calls the "green extreme" or "loony left".In particular, he says that their opposition to mining and fracking is not evidence-based, and fails to consider employment and the economy."If you're pro-conservation the problem here is you're increasingly being regarded as anti-economic growth. That is not a constructive position to take. It needlessly alienates huge numbers of people," Morgan said.
He's dead right; we know what the Greens are against, but what are they actually FOR? And sometimes their statements are awfully confused; Green MP Eugenie Sage illustrated that precisely yesterday in the same story:
The Green Party says it considered a coalition deal with National, but the parties are incompatible on many environmental issues."We've seen National's agenda to sell off assets, to have a drill it, mine it, irrigate it resource extraction policy. That goes to the heart of nature. The Green Party is about a sound economy based on a healthy environment," Green Party MP Eugenie Sage said.
Quite how the sale of a minority shareholding in several state-owned enterprises is an environmental issue is completely beyond us. The again; we don't look at the world through Green-tinted glasses!
37 comments:
You're actually getting quite worried about the abysmal performance of your little friends aren't you? I expect we will see more and more shrill attack posts from you in the coming months. This one is particularly confused.
Gareth Morgan is a middling economist and mediocre fund manager. Why do you think his trite views on politics are worth cutting as pasting with such reverence?
"Quite how the sale of a minority shareholding in several state-owned enterprises is an environmental issue is completely beyond us."
One example alone would confirm that yes, all of this is 'beyond' you.
Water. Minor shareholders can apply influence sufficient to effect the management of NZ rivers on which generators are placed.
Go away Robert; you're banned, remember.
Quite right, KS. I apologise for my unacceptable comment.
I have been told today via twitter, that asset sales effect the environment because the government can no longer direct the companies to "be environmental".
So yes, that should confirm to us all that "Green" politics, or at the very least Green Party politics, are little more than a front for hard-left socialism and the command economy.
"that should confirm to us all that "Green" politics, or at the very least Green Party politics, are little more than a front for hard-left socialism and the command economy."
Really Joel? How so? Not expecting a coherent answer here, just some general sneering, but go for your life.
"Gareth Morgan is a middling economist and mediocre fund manager. Why do you think his trite views on politics are worth cutting as pasting with such reverence?"
"Not expecting a coherent answer here, just some general sneering"
Irony anyone?
Only if you don't know what irony is.
Joel said, "I have been told today via twitter..."
'nuff said. Next.
"Trojan horse! Trojan horse!
See me use hyperbole! See me stir up discomfort, suspicion and fear! See me do National's bidding and spin on their behalf! See me shill!
Aren't I a good boy!
OK, let me clarify. There is no good reason to insist that governments need to own companies for them to be environmentally friendly. The government, and parliament, can pass any laws and regulate companies in any way. So they can require companies to become "green" in the private sector. There are plenty of initiatives/regulations the government can enact in protecting the environment that have no bearing whatsoever on the ownership (public/private) of companies.
Environmentalism is being used to market the Green political brand, which also includes a fairly radical economic agenda. They are pretending that the state needs to own businesses so they can be "green" when this is patently not the case. The public sector is terrible with the environment. City and District councils are among the worst polluters of our rivers.
All I am suggesting is that they be upfront about the real motivation for the ideological commitment to state control, rather than pretending it has something to do with the environment.
Holden complains of "generally sneering"; oh, how rich is the irony on that?
@ lAnon (11.27am) - "Trojan Horse" is Gareth Morgan's description, not mine.
Joel "The government, and parliament, can pass any laws and regulate companies in any way. So they can require companies to become "green" in the private sector."
The private component of what once was a state-owned enterprise can lever the Government with threats of legal action, if they feel the environmental requirements will impact negatively on their profitability.
Answer that, if you can.
That's exactly correct. Large corporate entities are also very effective at lobbying government to relax environmental standards (using property rights and so called economic imperatives as justification), and with Joyce at the helm they will get what they want.
It's a pity that Gareth is so dismissive of the Greens when many of his ideas support Green policy. He did some good research on the realities behind climate change but does not appear to have done the same about the Green Party.
The Green's opposition to the mining of gold and fossil fuels is being misrepresented here. There is heaps of evidence against the mining of coal and lignite and if all of Solid Energy's new developments occur it will bump our carbon emissions up by 20%.
The issues with both fracking and deep sea oil drilling are around lack of protections and assurances. The Commissioner of the Environment is looking at the environmental effects of fracking at the moment and Gareth has been asking for a moratorium on the industry until this is complete. Given that no proper assessment on the safety of the industry here it seems more than reasonable. Considering the huge amounts of money we are spending on mitigating the effects of past mining (Tui Mine and others) surely we should take a more cautious approach.
The mining of lignite in Southland is especially concerning, it will destroy some of our best farmland and the resource is one of the poorest and polluting of all fossil fuels. I would have thought mining silica would make much more sense as it will provide jobs, won't be as destructive as lignite mining and supports the solar energy industry. Why aren't we looking at alternatives to coal and oil?
It is interesting, KS, that you appear to be attacking the person rather than the arguments with your odd obsession with Gareth Hughes. Gareth is the only MP I am aware of who has come to Southland and talk to local people about the lignite issue.
Gareth Hughes represents everything that is bad about MMP bsprout. He has never won an election; he was parachuted into Parliament during the last term, and there is precious little that anyone can do to get rid of him. He speaks in cliches, he has an opinion on everything (I could say "based on his extensive life experiences" but you'd accuse me of a personal attack), and he has discovered how seductive the taxpayer-funded lifestyle can be.
Any kind thoughts I had for Gareth Hughes evapourated when he suggested that oil should have been being pumped from the Rena on Day One, when expert opinion clearly showed that was impossible. He politicised a significant environmental situation for his own and the Green Party's purposes, but he got his facts wrong. That is simply not good enough. But his alarmist nonsense had no consequences thanks to the vagaries of MMP; we simply can't get rid of him and his ilk.
"thanks to the vagaries of MMP; we simply can't get rid of him and his ilk..."
His ilk? Who are they? People with whom you disagree? Who wants to get rid of him? The tories? That's the silliest argument in favour of ditching proportional representation I've ever heard.
Joel, where are you? Your question hasn't gone away and won't until you answer it. Maybe one of your ilk might like to try? It's a simple question. Answering it would show that this blog and the righties that haunt it aren't just air-headed ra ra supporters of all that is Key, but do in fact have a brain that contains thoughts that are sound. Let's hear it lads! Do the Right proud!
@ Cliff Edge; maybe Joel has a life; he certainly doesn't have to dance to your tune.
Have a go Keeping Stock. You can do it if you try. You're ilk.
Goodness me, KS, you do have it in for young Gareth. I don't see him expressing an opinion on everything, he tends to sick to the policy areas in his portfolio (Energy, oceans, ICT, libraries and archives) and is generally very knowledgeable.
Gareth won a lot of support as our ICT spokesperson by being possibly the only MP who actually understood the reality behind the copyright amendment bill. I think the only person whose speech on this bill had more hits than Gareth's on Yutube was an unfortunate National Party MP who had hers circulated widely because of the comedy factor.
His work on promoting the insulation of rented properties, especially student flats, has been very valuable as has his advocacy for endangered marine fauna like our almost extinct Maui dolphins.
His work on highlighting the dangers of deep sea oil drilling is important considering the poor record this new industry has overseas and if there were no issues with fracking then our Environment Commissioner wouldn't want to look at it.
Gareth's concerns over the Rena disaster were entirely reasonable and it has been shown since that Maritime New Zealand's capacity to respond to a bigger disaster is limited. The fact that Maritime NZ's response was better than many authorities overseas does not mean that it couldn't be better, especially considering the environmental and economic value of our coastal waters. http://www.listener.co.nz/current-affairs/the-rena-fallout-continues/
As for your bizarre criticism of Gareth's right to be in parliament, he has earned his position on the Party list and has been through an election just like the majority of MPs currently. He is one of parliaments hardest working MPs.
I see drudge and bOb (has anyone seen them in the same room?)are doing the tandem thing again .. so predictable.
Anyway, well done Gareth (Morgan, not Hughes), the microscope is being focused on the Gweens more and that is a good thing.
Nice to see the insults from drudge and bOb being shared around, I was getting worried it was just me they hate (and John Key of course).
Keeping Stock said...
@ lAnon (11.27am) - "Trojan Horse" is Gareth Morgan's description, not mine."
"But Gareth Morgan is dead right; for all the good work that they are doing, they are a long way from becoming a mainstream party, and the old story of the Trojan Horse should be a very sobering reminder to us all."
Whaaaaaat??
"I was getting worried it was just me they hate (and John Key of course)."
Poor jubjub. You're far too boring to hate. I pity you on the rare occasions you even register. Don't hate Key either - hate's a tory trait, you all hate Helen Clark for instance. No, Key's personable enough, just an utterly hopeless leader as it turns out.
as I said before drudge, being called boring by you is insulting BUT I must admit, you are a boring expert so you maybe right
Helen Clark is the Devil.
John Key is God.
There, I've said it and I'm not ashamed.
Rot in hell, lefties.
"Key's personable enough, just an utterly hopeless leader as it turns out"
A huge amount of people say he is already deemed our best ever PM .. they must be wrong aye drudge.
How would you go as PM Drudge?
Oh dear; moderation is now on so sanity can be restored!
You should really let jabba keep up the hilarity unhindered by your attempts to save him, IV2. Your call though.
why would KS need to save me drudge .. you are the loser.
lets see .. I heard this once .. it went something like "we won, you lost, eat that"
You are backing a losing side and even if they/you win in 2014, the mix will be a dead set joke.
Good luck with that drudge. In fact, 2014 will be a chance for you to save NZ by standing for election .. phtttt.
bOb once said he was standing for the Gweens but pulled out once the reality that he would get an arse kicking became obvious.
Oh, Jabba, how mistaken you are. I did stand as a Green candidate, did see it through to election day and didn't do too badly, up against Bill English. When you've done some research you'll find that my score was only in the hundreds while his was in the thousands and that will give you great reason to gloat, but I was there, I did it and didn't, as you claim, pull out. I've a challenge for you, don't pull out will you!(Nor you, KS. I see you've invoked the Moderation Charm, but if you would be so kind as to let this comment through, I'll play very nice indeed.).
jabba said...
looks like the leftard wankers, drudge and his anon mates (is booby one of them) are picking on me .. I am so worried about that .. by the way, name a time and place and I am willing to discuss your concerns .. oh, don't worry, I know you will all be too gutless to front
robertguyton said...
jabba - I would like to meet with you. If you are in Auckland or Christchurch, I have to be in both places shortly, so I'll email those dates to Keeping Stock and he can pass them on to you along with my email. He can pass your response back to me. See you soon.
Gareth has just posted the speech over on his blog http://garethsworld.com/considered-conservation-the-successor-to-the-green-extreme-forest-and-bird-keynote-speech/
bOb, you slag off Bill English (what is it, Double Dipton or such) and he kicked your ass. The fact you had anyone vote for is a big plus for you .. wow.
The Greens have a large amount of MP's now, are they all better than you bOb .. gee wizz.
The thought of actually meeting you makes my blood run cold .. how will you get here bOb, walk or just plant more trees to soak up your carbon footprint.
Sorry, jabba. I didn't mean to frighten you.
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